Entropy/ Information/ Potential Energy/ DLE

Summary : Different forms of Entropy / DLE-Entropy

Purpose : Certain types of Entropy have great potential for change others don’t / Ways to distinguish one from the other / Understanding DLE-Entropy as a result of energetic processes

K: Dear Lucian believe me I dont want to stay on the philosophical talk level … but I
know and you know that math is just a language to formulate ideas… so the ideas have to come
first.

L: I agree – these ideas form what I call the physics interface (or some other science’s); then a good math-programmer can “spell” it into math-code: definitions and formulas.
K: Of course there is the kind of Entropy where moving mass is equally
distributed in space

L: Mass is a classic concept which entails knowing the position, e.g. matter density etc. If we don’t have a “Newtonian” distribution of mass, or we don’t know where it is, we then have a probability distribution of the “total mass”; this p-distrib. has an entropy; I would call it “static” …

K: this I would call Kinetic Entropy or Thermodynamic Entropy but how is the Entropy of an Electro-magnetic Field defined just to say that the Energy density in space is even does not tell anything
about the Frequency distribution for example a room with white light evenly filled would be the same Entropy with one for example where half is filled with blue light and the other with red
light but the red light district has just a higher intensity (like in Amsterdam )

L: If we accept Einstein’s “trade”: energy<->matter, then what I said earlier applies to light too.
But so far did not mention quantum states; pure states in superposition, e.g. entanglement, have zero von Neumann entropy, while measurements will yield values with various probabilities, therefore having an entropy … a bit misleading, which shows that the term entropy depends heavily on context.

K: Is there a Frequency-Entropy defined that would mean that all Frequencies
are equally distributed ?

L: There are models which tell what’s the probability for each of the possible frequency of a resonant cavity; for example: Planck’s black-body radiation formula (an old issue – starting the quantum revolution).

K: or is there only the Energy-even-distribution-entropy definition ?

L: The fundamental concept which determines the behavior of a system is its Partition Function Z=Sum exp(-En/kT), which essentially tells what the possible energy levels are, and what are the probabilities for the system to be in one of these energies: Pn=exp(-En/kT)/Z (normalization).
Then the Shannon entropy of the this probability distribution is H=- Sum Pn log Pn.

Unfortunately such “fundamentals” are not always useful in practical situations one comes across with … Our last discussion was centered around EM-potentials with zero EM-field strengths: if they don’t carry energy-momentum, then what are they? I said “information” in a wider sense of “structure”, which in algebra usually means “the groups of symmetries of that system”; the bigger the group, the less we know in which state the system is at a given time, so the entropy of the system is, following a Bolzmann-like formula, H=log Symm(System).
To make sense of this in the above example, we would have to use a discrete model for space (time is just a parameter), and it’s not the place …

Bottom line, what I think it is relevant for Inergetix, is that such an EM-potential can be modulated so that it can carry classical information without transporting energy; why it’s a remarkable new possibility? because it is not screened by obstacles, and it cannot be detected by conventional measurement devices (multi-meters, EEG, ECG etc.), since these conventional EM-measuring devices measure EM-field strengths, not EM-global potentials.

I should emphasize that scalar/vector potentials are of two types: zero-field strengths potentials: locally they produce E=0, B=0, so let’s call them global potentials; and the usual local potentials, generating E & B.
The global potentials cannot be gauged away, so they do have a physical meaning, when the region of interest is not simply connected, like around a thin coil (Aharonov-Bohm).

Well, too much details; the main idea: global potentials have “structure”, but not energy/matter, so it’s “pure information” in a wider sense, not as “negentronpy”, i.e. not minus entropy as a measure of lack of our knowledge of the system.

I’m not sure if I explained in a coherent way, but I’ll try to explain these things until I understand them myself :))….. Lucian

K: its rare to find scientists with such an honest attitude to their own work….. luckily you understand that the illusion of “COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE IS DEATH” a desperate attempt to exterminate islands of DLE-Entropy in ones own informational world. A dynamic interface between Knowledge (stability/ equilibrium) and Lability (not knowing/ doubt/ question) is the basis/ potential for growth/ change.

To my understanding exists a form of Entropy that is not just the “useless end-result of energetic processes” but on the contrary is the primordial soup of apparently chaotic particles/ mass-distribution/ information/ thought/ mind-activity/ events that is basis for a new cycle to begin.

There are many analogies or examples for this process, for example after big disasters like war/ fires/ earthquakes most people start again from almost nothing (this is a state of Entropy) that however gives new opportunities to some who will take it and then again to make great fortunes and once the initial wealth is created the accumulation of money in the hands of a few goes mechanically until the most gigantic multinational business monsters are formed. Money is potential energy that means it has the potential to set things in motion, just as gravitational mass, heat, electrical or magnetic potential energy.

Now all of you know what happened in the past when great and wealth cultures got broken down into a state of virtual Entropy… the cycle started again…. This is only one common-sense example that certain types of Entropy, I call it DLE_Entropy is not the end but the beginning just as the early Masonic’s new

“Ordo ab chao” Order out of chaos. Chaos is not the end but a door and the “beginning of the end” …. For those who know how to use it

https://inergetixforum.com/wp-content/uploads/Entropy-Energy-Cycle-205x300.png 205w" sizes="(max-width: 372px) 100vw, 372px" />

Energy-Information E= k*I equivalent according to Kiran Schmidt

The study and science of Entropy will be the basis of the Science of Information, because as Kiran postulates the world will understand that DLE/ Chaos/ Entropy is not the end of Energy processes buyt the beginning of a new cycle it is INFORMATION it is IN-“FORMATION”

S much for now…. You will hear about this as much as about DLE as both are only 2 different words for the same thing…… and I want to end with a quote from Claude Shannon the originator of the concept of “information Entropy” when he met in 1949 the great mathematician John von Neumann :

My greatest concern was what to call it. I thought of calling it ‘information’, but the word was overly used, so I decided to call it ‘uncertainty’. When I discussed it with John von Neumann, he had a better idea. Von Neumann told me, ‘You should call it entropy, for two reasons. In the first place your uncertainty function has been used in statistical mechanics under that name, so it already has a name. In the second place, and more important, nobody knows what entropy really is, so in a debate you will always have the advantage.

What both did not realize was that: